Talking to Kids About Race & Privilege

How do you talk to kids about race and privilege without the shame, sugarcoating, or awkward silence? 

In this episode of Odd Moms On Call, Chelsea, Tianna, Lindsey, and Brittany get real about the tough but necessary conversations every parent needs to start. 

From picture books and Disney movies to privilege checks and cultural appreciation, we share personal stories, parenting wins and fails, and practical tips to help you guide your kids through big topics with empathy and honesty.

We also dig into:

• What “privilege” actually means (hint: it’s not a dirty word)
• How to handle it when your kid says something racist or ableist
• Ways to model empathy without downplaying your child’s feelings
• Where cultural appreciation ends and appropriation begins
• Why silence and denial make us complicit—and how to do better

Resources and book recommendations are included at the end, so you’ll leave with tools you can use today.

Key Takeaways:

• Privilege isn’t about guilt—it’s about recognizing unearned benefits so we can raise more empathetic, aware kids.
  
  
• Books, shows, and toys with diverse representation are powerful tools for starting conversations early.
  
  
• Kids will make mistakes, repeat harmful phrases, and push back; curiosity and openness create teachable moments.
  
  
• Cultural appreciation is rooted in learning and respect, while appropriation treats cultures as trends.
  
  
• Silence around privilege and injustice isn’t neutral—it perpetuates harm. Speaking up, even with discomfort, matters.

Memorable Soundbites

• “Saying privilege isn’t real doesn’t make you neutral—it makes you complicit.” – Lindsey
  
  
• “Privilege is just an unearned benefit. It doesn’t make you bad, but it does make you responsible.” – Chelsea
  
  
• “Curiosity is the difference between cultural appreciation and appropriation.” – Tianna
  
  
• “When kids say something harmful, don’t shut them down—get curious and make it a learning moment.” – Brittany
  
  
• “Our kids will inherit the lessons we model. Silence and denial can’t be one of them.” – Chelsea

Resource List (from episode)

For Parents:

• So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo
• Raising White Kids by Jennifer Harvey
• Parenting for Liberation by Trina Green Brown

For Kids:

• Hair Love by Matthew A. Cherry
• The Day You Begin by Jacqueline Woodson
• Anti-Racist Baby by Ibram X. Kendi
• All Are Welcome by Alexandra Penfold

Other Resources:

• Code Switch (NPR podcast)
• The Conscious Kid (Instagram & Patreon)
• EmbracingRace.org

Got a hot take you want to share?

Send us a message, or email us at Oddmomsoncall@gmail.com. We might just talk about it on the show!

Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Threads, Youtube, and BlueSky!

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (00:35)
⁓ hey, you're back with Odd Moms

Welcome back to another unhinged episode of Odd Moms where we're talking about current events and how they impact our family. ⁓ We have a small but mighty panel with us today and a new face. So we'll roll into our introductions before we even get into what we're talking about. I'm Chelsea. I also host Quiet Connection, postpartum mental health.

And I am a non-binary stay at home mom of two,

Tianna (01:13)
Hi guys, I'm Tianna. I am a registered nurse and founder of Love Served Warm I also have the PCOS and Prosecco podcast. And I'm just a ball of love and light and happy to be here with you all.

Lindsey Basler (01:27)
Hi, I'm Lindsay and I am a stay at home mom to one and a part time caregiver to a young woman with Down syndrome. And I have a TikTok account where I talk about all things family and maternal mental health.

So you can check me out on TikTok at bigsister.irl.

Brittany (01:44)
Hi everyone, I'm Brittany Chidley I'm a licensed psychologist and mom of two. I have a private practice in San Diego and I'm also a co-host on the podcast, And We Feel. And I am aiming to decrease the stigma about discussing our emotional well-being with or without a diagnosis. And I am so delighted to be here. So thank you for having me.

Chelsea Myers (02:10)
We are so super excited to have Brittany. We love adding new voices and new faces to our panel. So thank you for joining us today. ⁓ Today, we're going to be talking about race and privilege and why it is so important to have these types of conversations with our family. Race and privilege are two words that can spark some big feelings.

And even bigger conversations, which is what we're here for. So today we're going to unpack what privilege means, why denying it can be just as harmful as overt racism, and how we talk to our kids about all of it without shame or guilt or sugarcoating. So yeah, and as always, we recognize that

We're gonna feel our feels and we're gonna have our opinions, but that's what we're here for. Just like we talked about last time, the table, we need the table. We've got our hands and our claws dug in so that we can all keep that table and have a seat at it. So I guess we're gonna roll right into it.

So I think we all have kids of varying ages and also like various neuro spicy slash sparkly slash all of the At what age has or even has it?

has race or privilege come up in your household? Is that a topic that has come up with your kids at all?

Lindsey Basler (03:42)
So my kiddos, like I said, I have a four year old and then I have a 13 year old. So there's kind of a big space there. And with my four year old, there haven't been as many instances. I will say we are from a very predominantly white community. So really as her parent, it's been my job to introduce her to a variety of people. So.

I really try and bring those things into our house. We do live closer to the St. Louis area, so I do have some ability to go out and take her out to events where she can experience other cultures and things of that nature. So for us, we're kind of in that stage where she hasn't gone to school yet. She hasn't, she doesn't do a lot of activities. So we're kind of in that stage where

Tianna (04:25)
No.

Lindsey Basler (04:39)
I know she needs to see people outside of her home. ⁓ I actually, brought my book stack with me for when we get to that. I was a children's librarian previously, so I've got my mega book stack for us to remember what titles we can work with. But that's kind of where we started ⁓ since she was a baby. I have a lot of like-minded friends who... ⁓

would be wanting in on this conversation. And they were not quite mothers yet, but they knew that this was something that needs to be talked about. ⁓ And a lot of these are gifts from them. So they all have sweet little messages in them. But we haven't had a ton of conversations with my four-year-old yet, but I am a.

waiting to get there once we go to school. Let's see, know, who are your new classmates? When are those questions gonna come up? And like you said, Chelsea, we all have kids that are different, neuro, spicy, like you said. ⁓ With my 13 year old that has Down syndrome, with her, we have had some conversations and...

A lot of those conversations have to be repeated. She's definitely one to just say something and you're kind of like...

And it is hard to gauge sometimes how much of the conversation she's picking up, but I don't think that's an excuse to not have conversations. ⁓ Just you have to keep having them over and over.

Chelsea Myers (06:12)
I love that you mentioned ⁓ the kids books. Like I know I'm jumping in and I do that a lot, but I'm so glad that you have your stack and that I also have many of the titles that I saw in that stack. I'm also a book lover, children's book lover. ⁓ And before I even like, I don't need to get into my whole spiel yet, but like reading.

In terms of so many of the things that we talk about on Odd Moms is such an easy in for opening up these conversations with your kids. Like books are, it's just literally like the easiest way to sit down and be having a conversation without realizing you're having a conversation about heavy topics. Just some things to throw out there like babies as young as six months old.

start showing preference for faces of their own race. ⁓ And by two to four, children can start internalizing any sort of ideas around race that have been perpetuated by their family members or caretakers. So it is super important to read those books and have those conversations really, really early.

Brittany (07:31)
I love what Lindsay had to say and I was also thinking about ⁓ the privilege and the race part. Obviously we don't choose our race. We can choose how we show our privilege and talk about our privilege. And that was something ⁓

Even when I was pregnant and thinking about the car seat and the stroller and the pack and play and all of these things that we purchase and consume, how to come across what feels right for me, but even the taking time off from work, I'm self-employed and had complications at some point with my second and.

the privilege of being able to take time off, the privilege of maternity leave, the privilege of having a parent. These were things of being aware and talking about with my partner pre-kids and ⁓ then bringing race into it. I love what Lindsay said about the books. That's something that we can have with my son who is my first. I was

really wanting to introduce all sorts of toys and dolls, you know, that will be something in our neighborhood. My son will see.

a lot of white skin in our neighborhood. And so I think I tried to be as aware and conscious, but it's a sensitive thing when you bring in a child and family and all of the conversations that come with that. So I'm still learning too.

Tianna (09:06)
I love what Lindsay and Brittany said, but specifically with Brittany, like ⁓ my son, so I am biracial and so ⁓ I can say my, you know, I grew up like Hispanic, but I'm biracial. And so my husband is also Hispanic from a different country and just the way the genes work, right? We're both relatively like dark. Our son came out very, very light.

And so for us, was like, first it was a shock for me because I never, I never knew it mattered so much till I had a son who was very light and I got very.

just questioned from his pediatrician, from other people about the race of his dad. And they are like, why does that matter? Why are we so intrigued? But to take it a step further, ⁓ my son did show preference very, very young to other women who look like his mom, not necessarily like him. And so that was something that was very confusing for me, if I'm honest, because I couldn't understand how he had preference for, especially for darker women. And there's just not societal preference.

And then I learned that he had a preference for his mom. And I was like, ⁓ my, like, my God, like I fell in love all over, but we have the conversation because he's a young boy and he does say like, mommy, I want, he'll say something and I'll always remind him. It's okay to have preference. What it's not okay to do is to label a whole group of women or to assume that they all have the same attractiveness or.

unattractiveness because of where they come from. Everyone like, you you can love strawberry ice cream, that's fine. But let it be because you love it and you genuinely like connect. So that's where we are. And it's a topic that I'm very sensitive on ⁓ because I myself don't know, I've never been here before where I feel like it's kind of like reverse. And I myself don't, I wanna do it in such a sensitive way and he's still very young.

But I already see with his young friends that there is a preference. And it's just something I never thought as a woman of color that I would have to experience with my kids. just thought that honestly, like it's a world that we have to adapt to. And so seeing that he like he's having trouble navigating that or like where am I, you know, ⁓ it's really interesting and just hearing you all share your experiences. I'm like, okay, I'm going to get the books. I'm going to get some different, you know, because, ⁓

Before this conversation, it's never one that I had the pleasure of participating in.

Chelsea Myers (11:48)
I think that's so interesting. ⁓ like, so if for listeners, if you are listening and not watching, ⁓ this panel is not super diverse. Like there are four of us here and I'm not going to assume how everyone identifies in terms of race, but like I identify as white. ⁓ Everyone else can speak for themselves, but.

I was surprised, Tianna because I honestly thought I was like, Tianna is going to have some great resources and Tianna and see and that's an implicit, like, I don't think bias is the right word, but like expectation, like I, and I'm admitting that I was, ⁓ I came to the table thinking like, yeah, Tianna is going to have some have some drop some knowledge on us and you may still girl like you, you always do.

But ⁓ to sort of hear that that's not a conversation that you were initially prepared for, it does surprise me. Like I thought I was going to be probably the one with the least knowledge in this area. ⁓ I live in Vermont. We are so white. We have very, very little diversity. ⁓

were often made fun of in different like media things because of how white we are. We're white and we're progressive. So we're all just apparently like pot smoking hippies up here. and we're all gay. But that's but I was like, okay, that's not a perspective that I have any sort of background in in terms of experiencing

racial bias or I will say, I will say ⁓ privilege is something that I have thought about for a long time. And today we're talking about how race and privilege sort of are interwoven and interconnected, but ⁓ privilege also goes beyond race too.

there's privilege in terms of ⁓ ableism in terms of like, if you have a disability, whether it be physical or ⁓

or ⁓ a mental health struggle or a cognitive disability, there's privilege, obviously, in terms of race, there's privilege in terms of just where you were born. ⁓ And today we are gonna focus on how race and privilege sort of intersect. But ⁓ yeah, in talking about our personal experiences, the same kind of as Lindsay was saying, like my daughter's

don't really know a lot of kids of other races. ⁓ I think in my oldest daughter's preschool class, there was only one child of color. but because I worked in education prior, ⁓ a lot of those books that Lindsay had, and I can't wait for her to share them later, I had on my shelves because I understood

the importance of having representation. So both my kids have grown up books that have characters from all over the world, all different skin colors, all different ethnicities. And then I have not had the privilege discussion yet, but we're inching towards it. And it's odd the way that we're inching towards it.

It's because of the state of our country right now. ⁓ And so for us, it's not necessarily a race thing. It is how the changes in our government and in the people in power, how they're impacting us and how we are at a disadvantage where we weren't before our circumstances have changed.

And so my oldest is starting to ask questions like, well, why do we get help with this? Or like, why does this family get to do this and we don't get to do that? ⁓ So we're kind of having conversations about like, because this is just our family works this way and other families work different ways. ⁓ I'm starting to ramble, but... ⁓

I think it kind of weaves perfectly into our next segment if Lindsay wants to take it away.

Lindsey Basler (16:36)
Yeah, let's take a look.

So let's take a look here at have you ever had a moment where you realize that your kid had a level of unearned advantage? Does anybody have something for that?

Chelsea Myers (16:52)
So going along the lines of what I was just saying, our circumstances, our circumstances have changed since having my youngest daughter. Lots of things changed. So my oldest, is almost 10, more than half of her life, she came from a family with two working parents, two

like white working parents who had a little bit of disposable income. had student loans, so disposable income. I mean, we had a little bit, but she never wanted for anything. We didn't go crazy, but she never wanted for anything. And when situations changed and I had my youngest and I became disabled and I couldn't work anymore,

and our financial situation changed, the way that our family dynamics changed, ⁓ she started to notice. She's like, questions like, well, why can't I, if she sees a toy she likes, why can't we get that? Why can't we just go buy that? We don't need that. And saying like, okay, but like, can't.

Can we just go buy it anyway? Or if she wants to sign up for a camp or something, like, why can't I go to that camp? It's like, well, because that's a need, that's, or that's a want, that's not a need. And having to explain to her too, like she'd like, well, why can't, why does Jessica get to go to camp, but I don't get to go to camp. ⁓ And it's her kind of unlearning the privilege that she was, that she had and that we had.

and that we didn't even realize we had. And now having to talk about like, okay, there are wants versus needs in life. And right now we need to focus on the needs. And that goes deeper, obviously. I'm thinking of a YouTube video and if you guys have seen it, I saw this back in my college days, I think. And they line up this huge group of people and they say like, okay, take...

three steps forward if you were born to two parents. It's okay, take two steps forward if you identify as white or Caucasian. Take two steps forward if you graduated college. And it shows you how all of these privileges that you didn't necessarily, or you didn't choose where you were born or who you were born to, or if you could afford to go to college.

Those weren't choices that you made, but how those factors impact your privilege. So that may have been confusing and rambly, those are the two things that come to my mind when we're talking about privilege.

Lindsey Basler (19:45)
I resonate a lot with what you were saying there, Chelsea, just with my, even though the other child that I take care of part time, she is my niece, she is my brother's daughter, but I do take care of her part time. And that is where I have had some conversations with my four year old on the privileges that she has because my 13 year old was born to teenage parents. ⁓

16 and 17 when they had her. And unfortunately, she was born to teenage parents that have been in active addictions since they were teenagers. So for 13 years, and her and she's been abandoned by both of them on and off. And while I have been a consonant,

In my 13 year old's life, you can't replace the constant of your mother and father being there. It doesn't matter how many adults you have that are the constant in your life. When you have them, and regardless again of cognitive ability, you still know that and you see that. And I've had some conversations with her, with my four year old, when my 13 year old is upset or she doesn't understand.

why, you know, she got to see her mom for a day and then all of sudden she's gone again. And I, I personally struggle sometimes realizing that I, I have been able to give my four year old so much privilege that she has one I again, you know, I identify too as white Chelsea, like you said, you didn't want to assume anyone's race, but I

For people who aren't watching, I'm white and my four year old will be a future white woman born to two parents. I am privileged to be a stay at home mom. My husband works right now. I don't have to work the way the economy is going. I'm probably going to have to go back to work, but either way, she'll have two parents who are working, who graduated from college and who have been here with her every step of the way. And my 13 year old,

has never had that. ⁓ So I've had some conversations regarding privilege with my four-year-old. ⁓ I know I feel like I'm rambling too, Chelsea. So it's just gonna be a rambling day. two sometimes I personally feel that guilt that my...

While my 13 year old has a guardian, her maternal grandmother is her guardian and she takes great care of her. She lives in an older trailer. ⁓

In a neighborhood, I live in a nice house and I take care of her part time. She's here. I'm doing what I can in this moment. ⁓ But they have very different, very different lives, even though when they're here in my house, they get to have the same life. So it's just, it's, an interesting dynamic that I know as my four year old grows, that she's going to continue having more and more questions about. that's, that's a small conversation that we're starting now.

Brittany (23:00)
thinking about raising kids and young ones, it's developmentally appropriate for children to think that the world revolves around them, right?

And then we give different children different permissions and asking certain children to be more obedient or follow rules while other ones ⁓ get more permission to have certain behaviors. And so I think that was.

using, you know, the words for kids to express their feelings and to be upset and not want to share at parks, but not necessarily just say, you know, everything is yours because you want it. And that started, you know, pretty early and it's still something even with my children and their ages now that we're having ongoing conversations about like who gets what and why, why is it okay for them to get that and not you or

for your sister to have that or you to have that, not everyone is going to respond the same way. But I think it's still an evolving process.

Tianna (24:06)
⁓ I tell my kids all the time, one of my favorite quote, it says, I complained about my feet hurting until I ran into the man who had no feet. Right? And I tell them this all the time because it's so easy.

to complain from a place of privilege. And even in the place that we are politically, we are still, you know, it can feel like, ⁓ it just can feel like a very heavy time, especially for people of color. ⁓ Even then, we still have to acknowledge how privileged we are, right? Just to have a roof over our head. We got food, you know, ⁓ moms homeschooling them. But I feel like the time that I realized that my kids were really privileged,

was I used to work for a PPAC and gosh, mean, nursing has broke my heart in so many ways. PPAC is a center where special needs children go who are too sick for daycare. So it's like, you wanna talk about privilege? Let's talk about like all the moms who have sick children who require nursing around the clock and they have to go back to work and leave those children in the care of a daycare with like...

So I was a nursing instructor, nursing educator, and I took my group of students to this PPAC, and I saw a boy who was just like my son. He was very hyperactive, nonverbal, and they were having a lot of issues with him. And immediately I thought, I know what that is, the nutritional deficiencies, we gotta work on his diet, we've gotta, and then it hit me, in what time when he's here 12 hours a day, when the bus picks him up at 5 a.m.

He rides in the bus until seven picking up everywhere all around the city. He leaves he at three. He's not home till five. Like mom has it up to here. it was just like, I don't think before that it dawned on me. Like people, there's no like support. There's no like pillar for some people. And even in the times where I'm like, man, we've got it bad. Like there's someone else who has it so much worse.

And so I always encourage my son to see the world from that perspective. Like you're never gonna have everything that you want, but from the place of gratitude, you have to always understand that someone has less, always, right? And we just operate from that place of like, and we're very spiritual in this, like be grateful for the things that you prayed or matter, however you wanna say it, that you have today, that you have now. Cause so often it's so easy to like,

hit a goal and then you're like, okay, what's the next one? It's like, wait, we cried. Like we just moved into our new place three months ago. We were, we were a hotel living. And this is true story. Like three months ago, we lost everything. We were a hotel living. And I'm like, can we just, before we're like onto like the next, like, can we understand how privileged we are? There's so many people living in their cars right now. Like, right. So I really think that the privilege is a lot in, a lot in times of mindset thing.

Right? And you really have to take into account that no matter how bad it can always get worse. And that's what I try lead with my kids with.

Chelsea Myers (27:22)
there's a couple of things that you hit on Tianna and Brittany that stuck out to me. ⁓ One of them is I feel like it's a cultural thing for us to have that mentality of like, well, it could always be worse. Like it could always be, and I'm not, I love the sentiment behind that. And I understand like what you're,

getting at with your son. But I also feel like at times that can be like really challenging, especially for kids and for and for moms and parents in general, because you have to leave space to feel your feels, right? Like you have to there has to be a little bit of space sometimes to be like, this just fucking sucks. Like this sucks. And that's okay, too. But yes, I am kind of of

It's empathy. the end of the day, what you're teaching is empathy. And it's, it's understanding that people in the world are going through things that you don't understand. So yes, while something may be uncomfortable right now, or you're really upset that you couldn't get the new whatever Paw Patrol toy that you really wanted this morning, like understand that there are families

living in a hotel this weekend because they don't have a roof over their head. ⁓ You can be disappointed. You can be sad. Paw Patrol is cool. I don't think I'm so sick of Paw Patrol you guys, but like you can be sad. You can be disappointed, but also realize what you do have. What you do have and things to keep in mind as we talk about this and as we talk about we're really leaning heavily into privilege here. Privilege

what it really means is an unearned benefit. It is something that you have or something, a circumstance. You didn't earn it. You didn't work for it. You just have it. You were born into it. And another thing that's important to talk to kids about when you're talking about privilege, and ⁓ this is where my nine-year-old, like the questions start coming, is it's not about being

bad. It's not like there's not like if you have more than someone else has, it doesn't make you bad. Because some she would say like, well, I'm trying to think of a good example now. Of course, I can't come up with one. But she'd say like, ⁓ well, so and so couldn't have a birthday party. But I could have a birthday party. And that's not fair. And she's feeling down and bad about herself. And I'm like, No, it doesn't make you bad.

It means that our situations are different. And it doesn't mean that so-and-so didn't have a great birthday, which Tianna just had a birthday. Happy birthday, Tianna. So instead of instilling that shame, it's the empathy. It's the empathy that Tianna was talking about. It's the empathy, it's the understanding, and it's the willingness to fight the good fight to make sure that

Brittany (30:21)
and

Chelsea Myers (30:37)
privilege doesn't define all of us. It goes back to equity when we were talking about equity a couple of episodes ago.

Tianna (30:45)
I just find it a little bit funny, Chelsea, that I was on a different boat. I was recording a different podcast from you. When you're like, you didn't work, I'm like, that's what's the privilege I was talking about. I'm so sorry. I'm like, when I hear you explain, like, wait a minute. Did I go on a tangent totally? That wasn't privilege. I'm so sorry.

Chelsea Myers (31:07)
you're all good. No, you were you were talking about you were talking about privilege you were you ⁓ because because you were you were talking about like I and I love that you always have these one liners like you when it comes to soundbites Tianna like you're I can always count on you because you have these perfect one liners. like talking about like if you complain about your feet hurt and then you see the man with no feet like again, that

Tianna (31:09)
Okay. Okay. Okay.

Chelsea Myers (31:35)
could be considered privileged if you want to take that absolutely literally like I was born with feet. There are people who are not born with feet and that's not a choice that I made or that they made. So no girl you were you were on it. You were on it. Yeah.

Tianna (31:48)
Yeah, thank you. Give me a little confidence

for the episode. I was on it. Thank you.

Chelsea Myers (31:54)
You were!

You were on it!

Lindsey Basler (31:57)
I think I can circle us back real fast here and just kind of bring us together because when you paused Chelsea and you said that we have to remember that privilege equals unearned benefit. I think that's where a lot of adults that reject the idea of privilege get lost is that they don't understand the definition. I see my own family members, you know,

post things on social media, lots of times they're just sharing stuff that says, I've worked for everything I have. And that's fantastic. I know you have, but that's not the same thing as privilege. I know you've worked for certain things, but that doesn't mean there were unearned benefits along the way. So having those unearned benefits, it doesn't make you bad to realize those things, but

You have to stop and realize them. And I'm glad that we're having this conversation so that our kids grow up understanding the meaning of the word privilege and not just thinking that, I'm working for these things. No, it's the things you didn't work for. You just have them. They're just there.

Chelsea Myers (33:13)
Yes, Lindsay, for bringing us full circle there. Both Tianna and I were like, we're on rabbit holes and we're tangent and you're like, no, no, this makes perfect sense. We love you for that. We do. Tianna, do you want to bring us into the next segment?

Tianna (33:14)
Yes! ⁓

We do.

How do you talk about cultural appropriation versus appreciation with younger kids? Culture appreciation taking from another culture without understanding or respecting it, especially when that culture has been marginalized. It often shows up as costume, trends, or profit without credit. Think using someone's culture like a fashion accessory. And then cultural appreciation is respectfully engaging with the culture by learning about it.

honor its meaning and supporting the people that come from it. Think sharing space, giving credit and staying curious without being careless.

Chelsea Myers (34:04)
This is such a huge question, Tianna, and I'm so glad that you chose this one because I wanted to talk about it so bad. And I can't wait. I want to hear other people's opinions about this. But again, we've all recognized that we're of a similar age range here. We're all either millennial or elder millennial. And I don't know about you, but as I am a proud Disney adult, don't care.

⁓ my god, the amount of censoring of Disney that I grew up with that I am now like, ⁓ yeah, we're not watching that in my house with my kids. ⁓

Lindsey Basler (34:43)
keep watching

Pocahontas for the first time with your four-year-old and being like, what is this? It was a horrifying experience.

Chelsea Myers (34:50)
Yes, like this is not what I remember.

Yes. We grew up with Pocahontas. We grew up with the Hunchback of Notre Dame. We grew up with Mulan. like and as kids, we I don't know about you guys, but like I felt empowered by some of those characters. I'm going to be honest with y'all.

Tianna (35:02)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (35:15)
I was all about grandmother Willow. So like Pocahontas could do her own thing. I was all about grandmother Willow. like, then as an adult learning, not only the real stories behind these movies, and again, this is just one example, but ⁓ also the way that they just the dialogue, if you just had the script alone of these movies, and you were looking at it today, you would never

It would never make it past your desk. It's like what in the world? They are racist. They are sexist. are, and I know that there are going to be people that are going to say, it was the times. They were different times. were different times. But yeah, we're making the decision now. ⁓ my husband and I, and it's not just Disney movies, it's books. It's, it's, it's just.

Halloween costumes, it's things like that. It's like, no, that's actually not appropriate. ⁓ Or that's actually offensive to an entire culture. And how do you explain that to, I have a nine-year-old and a three-year-old. Luckily the three-year-old isn't really there yet, but the nine-year-old having to be like, ⁓ like they're talking about, I really want to hear your guys' opinions about this too, but like.

when they don't celebrate Christopher Columbus Day at school anymore. In Vermont, we celebrate, well, at least in our school district, we celebrate Indigenous Peoples Day. ⁓ And so having the language around that and not saying like the Indians and the Pilgrims. ⁓ So yeah, so big overarching Disney movies slash holidays are where we see a lot of cultural appropriation and cultural.

appreciation and opportunities to talk about that. What about you guys?

Lindsey Basler (37:07)
A lot of the same with you there, Chelsea. And like you, like you said, we're all around the same age. So it's hard to remember, you know, my kiddo might see pictures of me in my Indian costume from the fourth grade play. And she's like, oh, I want to do that. And I'm like, I don't think they're going to be doing that.

at the time when she's seen that, she's a little younger, so it's more just, you know, things are a little bit different now and that's just not a costume that is appropriate for you to wear. So that's just kind of where we stop the conversation then. So.

But where I feel like I could go with it more now, and she's going to be entering school, is I can build on that. Like you said before, reading books. And I'm gonna grab one of my books because something that my four-year-old does mention is seeing other people's hair. And we have hair love. And sometimes she will see someone with hair unlike hers. We have fine, thin, straight, straight hair. And she will see lots of curly hair and she'll be like, my gosh,

Can I do my hair like that? She's like I want hair like that and I'm like well one honey It's just not gonna look like that. That is just never gonna happen ⁓ So if she has you know, she has questions like that We have read this book. We love this book and we talked about how you know people are different and it's okay to Love that it's okay to appreciate them, but you're you're not gonna look like that ⁓

And we're also not going to try and look like that. We're not gonna try to, you know, be them, but we can really appreciate them. So that's just kind of the basic conversation at four that we've had about that. ⁓ And with the help of, of Hair Love.

Brittany (39:02)
I'd have to echo Chelsea what you were saying about Disney and just being in utter awe of taking an over decade break from Disney and then coming back to Pocahontas and the Jungle Book, horrible. Like what we see and now having conversations of maybe I needed to preview these Disney movies in advance. I was more prepared for the conversations with my kids, but it was...

I mean, maybe a sign of growth, but also just why has it taken us so long?

Tianna (39:37)
I relate to that. My ⁓ kids have like special interests where they're not really like on the Disney train, which I'm grateful for that. ⁓ I did have that. tried to watch a movie with my daughter. was like, wait, it was Shrek and there was like some little jokes that I promise I had never heard before and I was mortified. But the way that we try to show appropriation, we homeschool. So I believe that food is love. I believe it's a universal language. ⁓

Before I even did my coaching business, I was doing a chef's business because that's how I changed my son's life. It was through our nutrition. So the way that we try to appreciate other cultures is when we're learning about another culture, we try to emulate the foods that they make, right? We try to like, have like, we live in South Florida, so we have ⁓ like a Mexican market, Brazilian market, Indian market, everything. We really try to get into it. We try to go to the supermarket, pick out the ingredients, talk to the people. ⁓ That's how we try to up.

show a cultural appreciation. like many others, like Lindsay in the past, I have worn cost, you know, especially Indian, I love the tika, I love right and not not completely understanding. But I think when I became a nurse, I kind of like share that with my clients, like, you know, I really love a tika, you know, and they actually bought it for me. And then they were able to like educate me and and teach me about it. So I think that

appropriation is like a fine line that you can but I think that if you really have like genuine love and curiosity and you do it from a place of like really wanting to understand and be a part of it that the love is shared right because I never have an issue. Yesterday we were at the pool and these people had like these bags of milk in a ziplock bag but it sealed and they gave it to my son and my son was like

And I was like, what, they were like, it's a Brazilian treat. And I told them, okay, we'll go to the Brazilian market and we're going to learn about it we're going to try. And that's going to be our way of trying to appreciate a culture that we don't know much about.

Chelsea Myers (41:48)
I love that so much. it does, relates to what Lindsay was saying as well in terms of like, you can appreciate, like your daughter appreciating different textures of hair and things like that. ⁓ And I think just like you said, Tianna, like food is such a universal language, but so is hair, so is fashion, so is ⁓ just these things that may seem mundane are excellent ways

to learn. And it's the curiosity, I think, that distinguishes between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. Yes, right? So it's the curiosity. let's so nurturing the curiosity, doing exactly what you're doing, talking to people of different cultures and different backgrounds with curiosity instead of I just I have this image in my head and it's just it's because

Tianna (42:26)
Say it again.

Chelsea Myers (42:47)
of our generation, but it's like the can I touch your hair? Like, that's not a really nice question to ask people. A lot of people will probably say no, some people might say yes, but like, so it's the difference between can I touch your hair to, wow, your hair is gorgeous. What do you do? How do you style your hair? Teach me about that. Or like, yeah, I love Mexican food. Or instead being like,

this is delicious. Can you tell me about the recipe? Is this a family recipe? Is this like, so it's the curiosity and that's a great way to talk about it with your kids and as adults. It's not that difficult. It's really not that difficult. I think we overcomplicate it a little bit. Again, I'm just because you know me, I'm throwing in the facts and statistics.

But as of 2022, which feels like forever ago now, only 38 % of children's books published featured any BIPOC characters. That percentage has not gone up much. It's getting a little better, but like Lindsay and I, we have our proud stash of books. It shouldn't be our little stash. It should just be the norm.

⁓ and yeah, you've got to look at, you've got to look at toys. You've got to look at shows. You've got to look at books and you got to think about what's missing. You got to think about what's being stereotyped and you have to be really intentional with what you're presenting your kids with. It doesn't mean you need to shove race and privilege down their throats. It doesn't mean you have to, we're watching this show because it has an all Hispanic cast and we're not going to watch this other show, but it's more like, Hey, that like

Perfect examples ⁓ on Netflix, if you guys haven't watched them, you need to. So Kipo, there's show called Kipo, and it's great for the five to nine age range. And She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, which was a thing in the 80s, and then they brought it back. And holy, the diversity, the diversity in gender and race and sexual orientation and in just everything. It exists.

and having it be there as an opportunity, not as like, we can't, we can't watch that and we can only watch this. Like, which I think this group of odd moms is so good at doing.

Lindsey Basler (45:18)
And that's one of the positives of, you know, I think we demonize screen time so much, but we can use it as a tool when we're watching things as a family or, you know, I was just saying to my husband the other day, my daughter was excited about a new show coming to Netflix. ⁓ Now I forgot her name, but it's set in Hong Kong and she loves this cartoon. I cannot remember the name of it, but there was a new season coming out. She's so excited.

wrote it on the calendar and I told my husband the variety of cartoons available to you at any moment is insane but it doesn't have to be a bad thing because we can find that variety. Was I watching shows when I was younger with such variety? No I wasn't but now you know I can show her from you know different countries, races, abilities. We can see all of those things in our home.

Brittany (46:17)
Yeah, jumping into how we navigate pushback. ⁓ I'm curious that we're all parents and I'm sure our kids naturally their job is to push back. So how do we handle our kids pushing back or saying something that's racist or harmful or ableist? How do we as parents handle that?

Chelsea Myers (46:44)
is such a powerful question and a difficult one to ask. I'm excited. I'm glad you chose that question because our children are going to make racist remarks. Our children are going to make ableist remarks because they're curious and they don't understand, especially before a certain age, they don't understand that what they're saying

is harmful to someone else. So I'm so, so glad that you asked that question and I don't want to dominate. I'm not going to go first this time. I just wanted to say like, yeah, you picked that question.

Lindsey Basler (47:24)
I'll go first. So I think the biggest thing about responding is not immediately telling them, you know.

We absolutely do not say that, like not, just like you would approach anything that they do, not immediately shutting them down. Because if you're immediately shutting them down, it's shutting down the opportunity to learn from it. And that's with anything that they do. And I think being able to be aware yourself that what they've said is harmful is the first step. Second step, not getting.

overly responsive to it and leaving that room to have the conversation about it. And then thinking about it yourself and you know.

Where did they maybe hear that? Where did it come from? And just having a little bit of reflection there. Have they heard you and maybe another adult making a joke you shouldn't have made? Because it happens. And stopping yourself and realizing if you have been the bad influence.

I'm sure that I have probably said something that I shouldn't have said. I mean, we're all human and I...

you know, and not infallible. And I may have made a remark that I didn't didn't realize at the time was something that was harmful. And I, you know, you're always learning, you're always growing. You need to check yourself to in that. Luckily, with, like I said, having a four year old, there hasn't been anything, you know, that huge other than, you know, just maybe commenting on an appearance and having, you know, a conversation around it. I have had my 13 year old say that she didn't

want a specific doll. There was ⁓ a black Barbie and she's like, don't want that one. And I, you know, just asked her, I was like, you know, why? And she just said, you know, I just, don't like that one. And we just had a very basic conversation with her around. ⁓

what it was specifically. And like I said, sometimes it is tougher, but I don't think it means just because she has different cognitive abilities that we don't have any discussion whatsoever. ⁓

I think we just have to be open to realizing that we're not infallible in being an impact on the things that they're saying and then not having an aggressive response when they're making those mistakes. So we can learn together.

Tianna (50:04)
Definitely want to piggyback on what Lindsey said because I totally agree and I don't I haven't had the experience yet But when it does come I think that I'm gonna carry myself like Lindsey said with a lot of curiosity just to understand because I think that our kids are sponges and When you raise your kids and that we all know like on this call I know that you guys are like amazing people You know that you have amazing children, you know, have they have amazing values, right? And so from that perspective

I would just get really curious right a lot of times they repeat things without understanding the intention or the emotional damage behind what they're saying right and I never want them to feel like mommy is not a safe place right I want my kids to know if you did something mommy's coming up like hide the body with you let me just kidding maybe not but you know what I'm but you know like I want to have that relationship with them where even in their wrongdoing

Even if you stand by wholeheartedly, explain it to me like I'm three years old. Explain to me where you came with that belief, what evidence in your life has justified that so that I can understand how you came to that conclusion. Because there might be some times where I'm like, you know what, I don't completely agree, but I can see where you're getting to that conclusion. So let's discuss it. And I just think that as long as you create that space where they were.

that corrective conversation can happen and you're extremely curious about where they got it from, because you know that it's not malicious. ⁓ That's honestly the best way, like Lindsay said, that I would approach the situation with my kids, because I know that they've got a heart of gold and that maybe in their attempt for connection to be popular, they might have picked up something that they thought was cool without really understanding ⁓

the meaning behind even as an adult, hear some the other day I understood that the word if to say something has chinky eyes, that that was something negative that should not. And I was like, my God, as a woman of color, I say it. And I was like, wow, even at my big age, I am still learning. I am still like assessing my vocabulary. So so I try to have like and I will have that sort of like tenderness with them. Right. Because I might have said it.

not even meaning anything negative by it. So the same thing.

Brittany (52:32)
I was just going to say, I think in my worst moments of responding has been my own discomfort, not knowing or not knowing how to respond. And that being met with silence, like shh or not now or something that kind of shuts down the conversation because I'm uncomfortable. And then in my best moments, I've come up with more two questions to ask. Like, are you trying to tell me something or are you asking me something?

and trying to figure out if that they're, they've noticed something different and my child wants to tell me what they've seen or they're trying to figure out and they're trying to ask me something. And I think that whole spectrum of either trying to shut it down or open it up really just stems from my own level of comfort.

Chelsea Myers (53:22)
I love that though. I like, I love, I love your willingness to be vulnerable and your response like that. Because just like Lindsay said before, like we are all going to mess up. We are all going to mess up. The difference I think between this generation of parents and our parents and the generations before them is that we're willing to admit when we screwed up.

And we're willing to admit it to ourselves and we're willing to admit it to our kids. And even saying, like it feels icky to say like I screwed up or you screwed up. There's nothing wrong with it. It goes back to curiosity. goes back to everything Tianna was saying, that Brittany's saying, and Lindsay was saying. Everything comes from a place of curiosity. And like Brittany was just saying, are you trying to tell me something? Are you trying to ask me something? Are you trying to, it's all about learning more and digging deeper.

⁓ I, the only place that I've faced this sort of situation is more from an ableist perspective and less about race. ⁓ because our kid, just because of our family dynamics and just, I don't know the way we are, like our bookshelves have always been filled with diverse books and our toys have always had, ⁓

diverse cultures, like all of my my daughter's Barbies are from all over the world. ⁓ And that wasn't necessarily intentional. It just happened that way. We liked their outfits or we let whatever you know what I mean? We followed the joy. ⁓ So instead of a race perspective, I will have like when my daughter was younger, my oldest daughter was younger, she would comment on people's bodies. And it was from a place of curiosity. It was and she like she'd use the word fat.

Like, why are they so fat? And fat wasn't a bad word to her. And I'm working on learning that fat is not a bad word. It's not. It's a thing you have, like fingernails. You're not a fingernail, but you have fingernails. Like I, a person is not, you have fat and that's not a bad thing. ⁓ So we talk about that. We talk about like, well, commenting on somebody's body.

or commenting on a part of someone that they don't have any control over or can't change in the next 30 seconds isn't something that needs to be mentioned. Because it can be harmful, not silencing you. If you're curious, talk to me about it. Like you don't have to, if you're curious, come and talk to me about it. Don't walk up to someone and say, why are you fat?

which I know all of our toddlers at one point has said something just like that. but, so we have the conversation really about, and it does, it goes back to race. goes back to, ⁓ ability and, and disability and, and privilege. If it's not something that a person can change in 30 seconds, it's not something that we're going to be drawing attention to. And if you want to know more about it.

ask me and then we'll approach it together. My youngest or my oldest has been in therapy since she was four. And one day we were in the waiting room and another child came in and this child ⁓ was very severely physically disabled, but not cognitively at all. So he had a super cool tricked out wheelchair. It was amazing. ⁓ As a special educator, I was like,

dude, where did you get that? And how can I get that for some of my students? But that's just where my mind was at. And my daughter looked at me and said, why is he in the wheelchair? And I said, I'm gonna help us answer that question. And I looked at this child's mom and I just said, hey, my daughter's curious to get to know your son. Is that okay? And it opened the door like,

they just started, she's like, Hey, I really like your wheelchair. You've got, think at the time it was like Spider-Man, she's like, you've got Spider-Man on your wheelchair. And he was like, yeah. And then that opened a whole conversation. yeah, that is obviously like, I picked like the best example out of all of anything that I could think of, but curiosity, curiosity is what to follow. And ⁓

understanding that most of the time when our kids talk about these things, it's not coming from a place of malice or of trying to harm someone else. It's coming from a place of curiosity. ⁓ We are approaching that time. We're approaching that time where first we get fired up and then we have to simmer down. ⁓ But it is time for our hot take of the whatever. I was going to say week, but we're not weekly. We're whenever.

And Lindsay has become our hot take hot mama. So Lindsay, I'm turning it over to you.

Lindsey Basler (58:31)
All right, are you ready? This is our hot take for today's episode. Saying privilege isn't real, doesn't make you neutral, it makes you complicit. So what are your thoughts on that statement?

Tianna (58:48)
feel like Chelsea's gonna say I'm coming with the one liner, but I just can't help it. They like bubble up, right? I think of the poem when it says, ⁓ didn't stand up. ⁓ When they talk about. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (59:00)
first they came for yes, yes, but I can't remember the words, but yes, yes.

Tianna (59:03)
You're gonna get me too

didn't stand, when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up, right? And I feel like that is so, it's like, it's overly important in this climate, in this time, you know, ⁓ we have to be so cognizant of understanding that until everyone experiences the same level of privilege and freedom, that we are all complicit. ⁓ And I think that that's like really powerful.

And it can also be a little triggering to come to terms with that, right? That we all on some level have some piece of complacency ⁓ for a world where everyone doesn't have access to drink clean drinking water and shelter and things of that sort, right? ⁓ So that's my stance.

Brittany (1:00:00)
I would add to the quote, saying privilege isn't real, doesn't make you neutral, it makes you enabling in a way that it just perpetuates the denial and the dismissiveness for one's own comfort.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:16)
Yeah, I love to bring it back to comfort. think that there is a degree of uncomfortability and we as parents and as people and as humans need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable because if we can't do that, nothing's going to change. I get hot about this topic a lot. So the hot take, it fires me up.

I had a whole conversation with my husband who is so well-meaning and probably one of the kindest white, cis het males you'll ever meet in your entire life. Like he understands his privilege and he understands that, but he, he to a degree, how do I word this delicately?

there were things happening around him in his life and things that were being said and stereotypes that were being perpetuated not by him but by the people around him. And he, he didn't feel comfortable saying something. And I've never been the person that was uncomfortable saying something. ⁓ My husband will tell you there's a dragon side to me and then there's the normal side to me. And when I like feel injustice, the dragon comes out. ⁓

So, and that's not always to my benefit, but so my instinct is always to ask questions and if possible, educate. And so I'm talking to him and I'm like, well, what did you say? Like people talking, some examples are like people being like, well, teachers have it so easy. They have summers off and they have vacations and they shouldn't, I don't know why they're complaining and why they...

like they need to be paid more and blah blah blah and I said well what did you say? I mean I was an educator for 10 years. I was like what did you say? He's like well I didn't say anything. I didn't want to cause an issue. I was like okay you're allowing that rhetoric to continue and even more recently when he hears people talking about immigrants and he hears people talking about ⁓ people saying like well they're taking our social security and

When I say things like that, I think back to the meme of like, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, but right, like spreading misinformation like that. And again, I said, what did you say? What did you say? And he said, well, I didn't say anything because I wasn't part of that conversation. And I told, was like, Ben, I understand that you're uncomfortable. I understand. But if you don't say, you don't have to go in there and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

guys like, hold up, like, this is what you got to stop talking like this. But you could say, hey, could you, could you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that? Or even like, that's how did you come to that conclusion? Usually when you get people to think a little bit deeper, what comes out is I don't actually know what I'm talking about. Or, or it's, it's a bias that they grew up with.

So yes, I 100 % believe that if you don't acknowledge your privilege, and on a broader scale, if you don't acknowledge injustice, and you don't say something, you don't probe deeper, you are complicit in continuing that behavior and that rhetoric. I got fiery, you guys. That was the dragon.

Lindsey Basler (1:03:44)
Okay, it's my turn. Because Chelsea, you made me like... Because I've had very similar conversations with my own husband who is also a white male and he'll be telling me about, you know, something and I'm like, okay, and what did you say? And he's like, I didn't say anything. And I'm like, how did you not say anything? And...

Tianna (1:03:44)
We love the dragon.

Lindsey Basler (1:04:12)
I think sometimes one, yes, he's uncomfortable. And then two, he feels like I am this white male. I'm not going to say anything. But here's something we didn't talk about. You have to see your privilege because guess what? You can also use it for good. You can use your privilege and come from that place of.

amplifying other people's voices who don't have that privilege. You can also use it to share information just like people who have a platform can use that to share resources and share people who are not getting that visibility. You can use your privilege for good. We said it's not bad, it's not inherently bad. It can be used for good. Use your powers for good.

If you don't see it, you're saying, hi, I have this and I'm very happy to have it and I just don't really care. Honestly, that's how you feel about it.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:17)
Yeah, I mean, I think that sums it up. ⁓ We are at the point where we take off our odd mom mics, we set them down and until we come back together again. But yeah, talking about privilege. ⁓ It's not about shame. It's about honesty. It's about curiosity. Our kids are watching how we handle tough conversations with them and with others and

they're going to inherit whatever lessons we choose to model. So silence and denial, is that where we want to be? Or action? And us as odd moms, we're choosing, we're choosing action. ⁓ We love to leave you with resources. And I'm going to summarize because there are so many and they are so good. But in terms of talking about race and

privilege with your kids specifically. Books for parents. So these are not books that you're going to be reading with your kids, but there's so you want to talk about race. ⁓ And I am not going to offend by trying to pronounce this person's name, but it will be in the show notes. I'm horrible at pronunciation. So I will put it in the show notes. Check it out. ⁓ Raising White Kids by Jennifer Harvey and Parenting for Liberation by Trina Green Brown.

So those are some books for parents books that you can read with your kids. Hair Love by Matthew A. Cherry, which we love love love. The Day You Begin by Jacqueline Woodson. Anti-Racist Baby by I believe it's Ibram X. Kendi. That will also be in the show notes, but I have that book. All Are Welcome, which is another book I have by Alexandra Penfold. There's podcasts, there's Code Switch by NPR, which

Let everybody pray for NPR ⁓ and public broadcasting in general. ⁓ The Conscious Kid on Instagram and Patreon, EmbracingRace.org and some actionable tips, things that you can do. And just adjust your media shelf for diversity. Think about the shows you're watching. Think about the books you're reading. Look at your toys. Use everyday moments to talk about equity. And we've talked about the difference between equity and equality. Go back to our previous episodes to learn more about that.

always encourage questions, even awkward questions, because curiosity is what is going to promote growth. So that's the only preaching you're going to get from me. But from all of us odd moms, I, I, we still don't have a sign off. Lindsay's, we just keep getting hotter, feels so good. ⁓ but yeah, I don't know. I just,

We're here, we're talking about it, and we want you to talk about it too. So send us a message, share an episode, and we might just talk about something you brought up on our next episode.