The Gender Wars: Raising Kids in a Polarized World

In a time when gender identity has become a political lightning rod, we gather a powerful panel of moms from across the U.S. to talk openly, honestly, and compassionately about parenting in a world on fire. 

From navigating legislation targeting LGBTQ+ youth to raising non-binary kids, our conversation goes deep—but never without humor and heart. We share personal stories, offer practical ways to support our kids, and highlight why kids aren’t too young to understand acceptance. 

Featuring hosts Chelsea Myers, Britt Sandoval, Lindsey Basler, Jess Rabon, and new panelist Tianna Trinidad, this episode reminds us that change starts at home—and sometimes, in the school pick-up line.

Takeaways

• Children are capable of understanding complex topics like gender identity.
• Parents should create safe spaces for their children to explore their identities.
• The political landscape significantly impacts the lives of LGBTQIA+ individuals.
• Educators play a crucial role in supporting gender diversity in schools.
• Open conversations about gender should start at a young age.
• Personal experiences shape our understanding of gender identity.
• Community support is vital for LGBTQIA+ families.
• The younger generation is more informed and accepting of diverse identities.
• Anticipatory grief can affect parents' acceptance of their child's identity.
• Celebrating small wins in the fight for LGBTQIA+ rights is important.

Check out these resources if you want to learn more about gender identity, supporting loved ones, and raising kind and caring kids:

•  The Trevor Project
•  ACLU’s LGBTQ+ Rights Tracker
•  Just Breathe Podcast for LGBTQ Parents
•   What Are Your Words? – A children’s book on pronouns
   

Got a hot take you want to share?

Send us a message, or email us at Oddmomsoncall@gmail.com. We might just talk about it on the show!

Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Threads, Youtube, and BlueSky!

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (00:34)
Hey, you're back with odd moms. Today, we have got a great group with another new face. ⁓ Before we get into our introductions. Today we are going to be talking about the gender wars, which sounds really ⁓ like maniacal. But it's really just talking about raising kids in a pretty polarized world ⁓ that we're that we're all in right now.

It's one of those hot topics, that's just what we talk about. yeah, so I'd love it if everybody could introduce themselves. I'm Chelsea. I host Quiet Connection, postpartum mental health, and I am a stay at home mom of two.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (01:16)
I am a mom of two. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and the host of Psych Talk podcast.

Lindsey Basler (01:23)
I'm Lindsay and I am a mom of one and a caregiver of one other and I am a stay at home mom and artist.

Britt (01:32)
Hi, I'm Britt, I'm a mom of four and the host of the Odd Nom Pod.

Tianna (01:38)
Thank you so much. name is Tianna. I am founder of Love Served Warm I'm a registered nurse and a PCOS hormone coach. I'm a homeschooling mom of 2.5 and I've got my oldest on hospice. So we're on quite the journey over here.

Chelsea Myers (01:53)
We are so excited to have Tianna joining us. We love when we get new faces. So yeah, with that said, let's dive into the gender wars. I feel like I should have like, but it's not that at all. So.

Britt (02:11)
Yeah, I think I'm really hopeful. I think we're gonna be good. I think we have a really good group to chat and I think there's a lot of us with unique perspectives. So I think that's gonna be really awesome. So I guess I will kind of jump into the next portion then, which in all of this as of 2025, the beginning of the year, there's been over 500 anti LGBTQ plus bills that had been introduced across the US.

and more than 100 of those target trans youth directly. There's currently 23 states that have current bans or restrictions on gender affirming care for minors. And according to the Trevor Project 2024 survey, 41 % of LGBTQ youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year, and rates are higher among trans and non-binary youth.

⁓ As a non-binary individual myself, this has definitely been something that's been kind of scary to see. ⁓ So with that, what are you guys are seeing or experiencing around gender identity in your community, kids' schools or families and things like that?

Chelsea Myers (03:29)
I'm excited to hear this too, because I'm also non-binary, but I'm not raising a non-binary kiddo. So I don't know. I want to hear from everybody else first.

Tianna (03:40)
I guess I'll start off. I'm kind of like, I'm kind of looking for the right words. I'm very much aligned with Chelsea in which I feel like I'm very sensitive on the topic because as someone who's neurodivergent, when I was very young, I felt like I was born into the wrong body. And so this is such like a ⁓ topic for me because for so long I thought, and I had all male cousins, I really thought I was born into the wrong body.

My mom would have to like beat me into a dress. I mean, I was really, I really wanted to be one of the boys and it took for me to get a little bit older and for me to say, it's not so bad to be a girl, but there was some really triggering tough time for me because I just felt like, especially a biracial child. So my mom was a different, so my features were just much, I just, I just didn't feel very feminine, not only as a girl, but just in my, in my features as a biracial child.

And so raising my children, although I have this experience, I'm very sensitive to their needs. And if I felt like they felt like they weren't at home in their body, I would want to support them in any way. But I have like a really tough boy and you know, they're both really set in their, societal stand, what societal says they should be. So right now I'm riding with that. But I feel like love is love should be so pure that

It really shouldn't matter, especially when it comes to children, because they might want to be an astronaut today. We really don't know where their feelings are, what, and I feel like they need the time to explore that. if that is their ⁓ ultimate destination, ⁓ that's okay too. We've just got to be a little bit gentler in guiding them and providing them with the tools so they can come to that understanding within themselves.

Chelsea Myers (05:32)
Yeah.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (05:33)
Thank you for sharing that, Tianna. ⁓ I appreciate you sharing lived experience and everything. My kiddos are really young right now. So I'm raising so far a daughter and a son, but how this has really impacted me as a psychologist, because I work with a lot of LGBTQ plus youth. It's one of the populations I literally am marketed to see. ⁓

⁓ and I live in South Carolina. in May of 2024, literally actually, as we're recording this in two days, it will be a year since, ⁓ legislation passed that in the state of South Carolina, youth cannot receive any gender affirming medical care. In the original bill, it also included a therapy. So I was up in arms about that. but they did take it out. And so really how this directly impacts me is through my clinical work. The amount of.

teens who are unable to vote but have sat across from me in our sessions talking about the impact of the current socio-political climate, how our bill was written if you're under 18 and you are already on any like hormones or puberty blockers, you could stay on them till January of 2025 but you had to wean off of them. So, you know, a lot of people are having to go out of state.

if they have accessibility to do so, to receive care that they had previously been receiving. So I have a lot of strong feelings about this from like a clinical perspective, but I absolutely agree with everything Tianna was just saying. Like as parents, I think it's our job to love and raise and embrace our children for their unique differences, whatever those differences.

maybe and you know Tianna I don't want to speak to your experience but I love that you kind of shared how you were exploring kind of who you were as a person and maybe what you felt at a young age is not what you feel now but then that you were somewhat allowed to explore that I know you said the comment about your mom like beating you into a dress and things like that but I tell parents that all the time like exploration of identity whatever that identity is is a normal part of development.

And I think because, especially with gender, this topic has become so political, so polarized. People forget that like in the nineties, like tomboy's were like a total normal thing. And now people are like, you let your girl dress in boy clothes and play outside. Are you trying to force them to be X, Y, Z agents? Like, no, the kids are just being kids.

Lindsey Basler (08:23)
here with you, Jess. My daughter, is only four right now. So we're really at a place where ⁓ we're really only having conversations if she brings something up. And really it's been as innocent as, ⁓ you know, I wanna play dress up with my dad. Like, why doesn't he wear a dress? And I'm like, well, if he wants to, like he can. I'm like, there's not a rule that he can't. I'm like, you he just.

The man honestly wears a black t-shirt and jeans every single day. That is his one superhero outfit. He does not alter from that. I'm like, but you know, he can wear whatever he wants. Or if we see someone in public that she thinks maybe just is a little different from someone else that she's seen before, ⁓ she feels comfortable that she can ask me, you know, why, they just are not someone that I've seen dressed like that. Or I feel like that person is a boy and they're dressing how I like to dress.

And I am in a place that we can have those open conversations. I don't have many personal lived experiences that I can share, but I really appreciate that I am able to know other people and surround myself with people who are very open to having those conversations. So I can help raise kids that are open to a world that everyone can be themselves.

I was a teacher previously, so I have some experience in helping students, being comfortable with who they are. And I have some things to share when we have a couple of our prompts later on, just some of the things that I've seen in schools. But I am just in a place of just having open conversations with my little young children at this point in time.

Britt (10:09)
I'll go ahead and share. So, this has actually been, like I said, I'm non-binary myself, ⁓ didn't understand or even have the language. Always felt at odds with my body, very similar to what Tianna said, obviously for different reasons and different undertones. But yeah, I didn't realize or even have the language to say that I was non-binary or understand what that meant until I was in my 30s.

And so now my actual, my seven year a couple, about three weeks ago said that they wanted to start to identify as non-binary and started to have conversations with kids at school about it. And we live in Oklahoma here where pretty much every type of legislation for bans and things like that all the way down to like.

Even gender affirming bathroom choices in schools are banned and things like that. So it's been very interesting. The conversations that we've had coming home recently, they've been, they have a kid at school who didn't understand it or didn't know what that meant. And so, you know, it's been so healing, I think, in a weird part of me to, be able to help them have the language and help them kind of identify exactly how they're feeling. But like this boy at school was asking, well,

if you're non-binary, why do you use the girls bathroom? And I told them, said, why, I said, do you like to be sitting up or standing down? And they were like, ⁓ well, sitting down is easier for me. And I said, okay, so does the girls bathroom or the boys bathroom have more toilets you can sit at? And they were like, ⁓ the girls bathroom. And I said, is that maybe a reason why you choose to use the girls bathroom? And they were like, yeah. So they went to school and they told the kids and

They came home the next day and were like, mom, mom, they were, everybody at school was like, yeah, that totally makes sense. How are second graders understanding these basic principles? And these are kids who maybe not, aren't even necessarily being raised in homes that have safe space to like discuss those types of things or even to have the language for those kinds of things. And so I think for me in my own experience,

in parenting. one of my favorite things is being able to kind of give that language and that understanding and to be able to help my child kind of start to live into that. Like I cannot even imagine if at seven years old, like I was a tomboy as you said, that those are like so common that to be able to be like, no, that's actually not, it's not it. It's deeper than that I think is really cool.

Chelsea Myers (12:53)
so really, really similar to Britt I didn't have the language. ⁓ I never really ⁓ felt comfortable in my ⁓ gender that I was assigned at birth, but I didn't understand what that meant. ⁓ I just

for so many reasons, I was always just labeled like a sensitive child. I'm overly sensitive and I'm dramatic and I'm this and I'm that. So I just thought it was another one of those things that was wrong with me. I'm like, I just feel weird because it's wrong. ⁓ And nobody talked to me. I didn't have even being... So I'm non-binary and I'm pansexual. Neither of those words existed to me in my youth. ⁓

And it was really interesting to come to those realizations like Britt in my 30s once I heard the words. And I was like, that's me. And my husband's been amazing through my evolutions because first I identified as ⁓ bisexual, like as a bisexual female. And then it changed to pansexual because really I'm again, we're not getting into sexuality. but and then I had the language for non-binary.

And my husband, every time as this evolution happened, he was like, well, yeah. And I was like, what do you mean? Well, yeah. He's like, yeah, like that's just you. And I'm like, well, you could have told me that would have been, it would have been nice to know. But, I, the other thing that I wanted to mention is I, ⁓ I write for Vermont mom blog. and my last.

Two of my last or most current pieces are about being a non-binary mom and what it means to claim the title mom and be non-binary. And one of the things that I realized as I was writing my most recent piece was how easy it was for my nine-year-old to switch my pronouns. Like it did not take any effort on her part. She was like, you, this is what you, okay.

And she'll correct my mother-in-law and just like, not like stop her, not like that's wrong. Like it'll be mid conversation. My mother-in-law will be like, yeah, she said she wants and my daughter will just go, they want. And then like the conversation moves on. ⁓ And it's so, it feels really, really like validating. And then I always say, I can't take credit for my daughter because I think she's from another planet, but like.

I'm so proud that she's just accepting and she has friends at school who are non-binary. We live in Vermont, so like, it's a little less, we're a very blue state. We're a pretty progressive state. We're still seeing some scary things happening, but she has non-binary friends and she has transgender friends. And I don't know, that just makes me happy. I wish I could have had that growing up.

and that understanding and that empathy.

Tianna (16:04)
⁓ Why do you think gender identity became such a political lightning rod?

Chelsea Myers (16:10)
Ooh, ooh, because we're easy targets. just like Britt said, don't like using the term minority, but ⁓ people who are in marginalized communities are very easy targets. And people in political power like to use us.

as their platforms. I'm like staring at Britt. I'm like, know Britt wants to say something.

Britt (16:36)
I always want

to say something, you guys. I don't know if you know this one, but I very hot takes on pretty much everything. A lot of it, think, comes from...

Chelsea Myers (16:39)
I know.

I know!

Britt (16:49)
It's, it's a, do you follow ALOK Do you know who ALOK is? Okay. If you guys know. So A L O K They are incredible, non-binary professional speaker who speaks on this all the time. And they have some of the most incredible like explanations on, ⁓ how people are living beyond the gender binary.

Chelsea Myers (16:56)
I think I've heard.

Britt (17:15)
historically have always been a risk expansion beyond what patriarchal, hierarchical structures are pushing for. And when people start to think beyond who they are, what they can do, beyond what society tells them that they're supposed to fall into beyond roles, that becomes a threat to power.

⁓ for those in power. And so when people are outwardly living beyond that gender binary and like, you know, really finding power in their own energy, whether that's feminine, masculine, or I believe all of us have all of it because it is a spectrum of life. Like everything in nature is on a spectrum, colors, music sounds, all of it. ⁓

But when we start to push beyond that, we become uncontrollable. We become not afraid of that ostracization that they use as a form of power. And we then start to reject roles that hold people in power, especially gender roles in heteronormative relationships and...

marriages and things like that. And so I think that is, I personally believe why, you know, the entire two-spirit LGBTQIA plus mafia alphabet, whatever you want to call it, is such a target is because it's really, I think the openness of us saying like, fuck the system and fuck the roles that you say that I have to live in because I was born with

breasts or a vulva versus, you know, and I think that becomes a threat to men whose entire existence is being the head of the household or the one who's supposed to be in charge. And when we push back on that, it's, it's threatening for them. And I think right-wing ideology, especially in American politics, thrives on that level of control and it becomes a threat.

Tianna (19:35)
my God, Britt, like, yes. Like, that was so good. And I'm like totally with you because I feel like the threat to tradition is individuality. So this is where we are. Where like we are finding that there are non-traditional ways to make income. are non-traditional, like we are breaking out of traditions. And I think that what we're witnessing is like a last pull. It's like a last grab for power, for attention, because we know that the direction that we're going in is,

It's disregarding everything that we held once as tradition. And I agree with Brittany, like a thousand percent with Britt, that is why this community is a target. It is because of the tenacity, it's because of the bravery, it's because of the inability to conform. And I feel like ⁓ that creates fear in people who have been in a position to hold power for so long. ⁓ So good, Britt.

Chelsea Myers (20:31)
told you guys Tianna was gonna fit right in. So I'm, I know I'm pausing and beating because like, so this is Tianna's first episode. And for anyone who's listening and not watching, I loved getting to see like the energy and excitement build as Britt was talking. And that's what this is all about. It doesn't mean that we're gonna agree about everything, but it means it's gonna elicit a reaction and we're gonna have something to say. That is why I love Odd Moms. So anyway,

Others, please speak. I have things to say, but I talk a lot, so...

Jess Rabon (she/her) (21:03)
A few thoughts, which once again, I agree with everything that's already been said so far, but Tianna going off of fear, you used that word. I think a lot of times too, in general, but especially in politics, people fear the things that they don't understand. And there is a ton of misinformation about gender, gender identity, the LGBTQIA plus community in general. And from my perspective as someone that works with this population,

a lot is that it's, we talked about it being an easy target, but it's also an easy distraction. It's much easier to get people to agree to pass a bill on a bathroom rather than address like systemic injustices or address the economy. people, and I think about this all the time. So the first bathroom bill, I put that in quotes, I don't know why, first bathroom bill.

was passed in North Carolina back in, I think it was 2014. It might've been 2017, but it was like not that long ago, within the past like 10 years.

Britt (22:08)
Which is crazy

that we're still, we're moving backwards that recently is insanity.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (22:14)
Correct, but also my question to literally everybody is prior to that bill being passed in North Carolina and getting national attention, did you ever think about the bathrooms that somebody used? The answer is no. And if you say yes, like I would be curious to have a conversation with you because like, I don't know, I can do an impromptu survey here. Like how many times, like I remember going to like,

Chelsea Myers (22:32)
then you're the problem.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (22:42)
concerts or things and the men's bathroom had a shorter line so I just walked in there so I pee and like yeah it might have been a little awkward but I would just be like oops sorry the women's restroom is long and they would be like okay whatever or like they're like and

Chelsea Myers (22:47)
Yes!

Britt (22:49)
Thank

Chelsea Myers (22:57)
Also, Jess,

Jess, everybody's house, everybody's house. I'm sorry. Airplanes, I'm sorry.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (23:01)
airplanes too.

Britt (23:01)
Airport, like in an airplane, that's

a gender neutral bathroom.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (23:06)
But...

Chelsea Myers (23:06)
You're- I do,

I like to say like, do you have separate bathrooms at your house? It'd be nice, because my bathroom would probably be cleaner, but like...

Lindsey Basler (23:13)
you

Jess Rabon (she/her) (23:16)
Well, in a lot of European countries, all the bathrooms are just gender neutral, gender, all genders. But all of this to say, think, you know, I there's multiple reasons, layers, but I think, you know, Republicans in general, if we're talking about the political divide, have targeted this population, have found like, we can pass this bill in North Carolina and people run with it or we can.

pass X, Y, or Z. And if we just distract from some of the bigger issues going on, we can quote unquote fix issues that don't necessarily exist or impact the people voting for them. And that's the thing I go back to, because I've been heavily involved in state level politics here with all of this stuff. And it's like the people that are voting to pass these bills literally have never worked with are related to

Britt (23:56)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (24:11)
anything a person that is directly being impacted by the legislation.

Tianna (24:14)
confusing

movement or progress.

Britt (24:16)
people haven't

even like stepped foot in a freaking Walmart. Like how can you say that like you know how the American people are living unless like if you've gone to a Dollar Tree, have you seen people like who are buying their groceries from a dollar store and are concerned about what bathroom I need to pee in? That's wild.

Chelsea Myers (24:36)
Yeah. Also, and Jess, you may have more knowledge about this than I do. Well, if you're involved in local politics, which I try to be, but ⁓ we'll go back to Schoolhouse Rock. I'm just a bill. ⁓ But when bills are presented to like local government, state government, federal government, there are little bits and pieces hidden in them that most of the time have nothing to do with

like the title of the bill or what the bill is about. So these policies may even get passed without anyone realizing what they're actually voting for. I think the bathroom thing is not an example of that. I think that was pretty clear and spelled out, but there are a shit ton of bills on the House and Senate floor right now that have very, I don't know how fine the print is, but

they have nothing to do with what the title of the bill is or yeah and so it's just it's infuriating. Lindsay I really want to hear about your experiences because you were saying when you were teaching.

Tianna (25:36)
to snotskin.

Lindsey Basler (25:47)
So I wanted to mention too, because we had a quote from a research study here that I think connects really well with what Jess said. It was from Pew Research in 2024 that said, 60 % of Americans say gender identity conversations are confusing or overwhelming. So your example, Chelsea, of your nine-year-old switching your pronouns like that and correcting your mother-in-law in such a nonchalant

simple way just like a little reminder slipped in there if she can do that and Any of our kids can say ⁓ that person looks like a boy to me But they may feel like that's not who they are and they feel like they're a girl. Okay, cool. Like whatever That's as a that's as confusing as it has to be and like just said with all the misinformation out there and all the different things people don't maybe don't

really know what they're voting for, that that's what's confusing it. That's what makes it overwhelming is that, you know, like Jess said, we didn't think about who used the bathroom because there was no one telling us to think about it. And it wasn't a thing. ⁓ So I that I feel really lucky that in a lot of the schools that I worked in. So I worked in a school. am from the St. Louis area.

and I worked in a school that was relatively close to the St. Louis in a larger city. And I did see a lot more students that were more openly sharing their own identities and felt a lot more comfortable doing that. Now, little disclaimer, I have stepped out of education in the last five years. So I haven't seen it in the last five years, but for me seeing them even doing that just five years ago, you know,

is a positive and I hope that those things are continuing. ⁓ But from going to a school that was closer to a big blue city like St. Louis, I live in Missouri, it's a red state, and then going to a very small, small, red, red, red city and teaching at a high school there ⁓ was a very different experience. ⁓ And just...

the amount of times I had to stop students from using gay or queer as a slur in the class, mean, daily, daily, daily battle. And then feeling like I could stop and have a bigger conversation with them, but the bigger the conversation I have with them, the bigger of a chance that I'm going to be the one that's

going to be in trouble for having this conversation and not them. So once I was in an area that was more, I guess, not as accepting, it was definitely harder to feel like I want to have this conversation, especially when I was at the high school level. And I'm like, you know, these are my students that are, they're going out, they're about to turn 18, they can vote and help make these decisions.

Chelsea Myers (28:35)
Mm.

Lindsey Basler (29:01)
and they're going into the workplace and I want to help them, know, maybe that's all they grew up with. So this is the views they have. I want to give them a different perspective, but how much do I give versus how much do I keep my own job and not say anything? So that was kind of the fine line that I was walking there. And then right after that is when the pandemic happened and I changed career paths.

have been at home since then. But I do wanna say that I think that there are a lot of teachers that are still providing that safe space, even if they're not able to have those conversations as a whole. I worked in a ⁓ tutoring center and I had a young woman there who was transgender and I was so proud that our facility there was able to give her a safe space she had.

very rough time at school. Her family was looking to move her to a different school district because of the hard time she was having, but she was able to come to our facility after school and we would kind of help her get caught up on all of her work. But just in doing that, she knew that we accepted her and we just wanted to help her get through her schoolwork. And if she wanted to talk, she could talk. But we spent a lot of time really just talking about her and what she.

wanted to figure out with school and how she was feeling. And I think a lot of that outside of the academics was more beneficial just to have more adults in her corner rather than what she was finding at school. there are a lot of educators out there, even if they're trying to save their job that are still having those conversations. So keep doing it.

Britt (30:44)
This is something too I really want to hit on because I think that the misinformation that's going out around schools and teachers and indoctrination and I mean, at one point there was even this saying going that kids were going to school and having gender affirming surgery at school and they were coming home from school a different gender. And so I think that's something so important to mention that and shout out to our educators who

Chelsea Myers (30:44)
It's a very real threat.

Mm.

Britt (31:14)
are navigating this space. And I have a very close friend here in Oklahoma. We talked kind of a lot about this last episode about her culture club, but how much love I wanna give to the teachers and educators that are out there that are fighting this information and are literally in this battle of losing their entire ability to provide for their family.

but they are also putting that on the line to continue to be a safe space for children, especially in areas where it's not as safe. And so I think too that there has been so much hate and so much, you know, towards teachers about what capacity they have to be influencing children's genders at school or how, how, what wording you're saying is going to impact a child.

decide that they're transgender and in reality I think it's lost that the entire point of teachers is to go and to help kids that are navigating these gender things in addition to, how are we going to ensure that you can get the education that you need because like that is huge.

Chelsea Myers (32:24)
I I always want, like I laughed, but it wasn't because it was funny. It's because when that rhetoric was going around, and I am out of education. been out of, I was a special educator for 10 years and I've been out for about three, but I'm like, when? I don't even have time to pee. At what point during the day am I indoctrinating your child into my way of living?

⁓ like I don't have time to eat lunch some days and the nurse is only like, I think we had an episode where we talked about there was only one nurse for a district and had to like rotate around. Like, that nurse is not performing, ⁓ gender reassignment surgeries, ⁓ while she's at your child's school. Like that's not happening. So I laughed because it's so ridiculous, but there are people that firmly believe this stuff.

Tianna (33:17)
And I feel like why is there such a pushback about that? And I can only think of the quote that says, ⁓ the darkness of a hundred candles cannot take away the light. I might be mixing it up, but it's like the light of one candle can destroy the darkness of hundred rooms. But the darkness of hundred rooms cannot conform.

cannot take away the candle, right? So when we think about these individuals, that's what I think about. I think about like there's this fight to keep the truth in the dark. And why would there be such a fight? Because there is so much power in that individuality. I think of those individuals like the one candle that can take the darkness away from 100 rooms. And that's why there is such a push to keep to silence these teachers, to keep the information, right? Because what is the

What is the issue with information? What is the issue with variety, with just having the understanding? There's only an issue with the understanding if you benefit from keeping the information in the dark. And I think this is what we're seeing, and this is why the teachers are the target. It's because it's such a push to just keep this really under wraps.

Britt (34:32)
I'm gonna kind of go a little bit farther off, you know, our panel discussion prompts, because I think this is an important topic, you know, is how are we talking not only to our kids, you know, about gender in appropriate ways, but like also how are we protecting and empowering those children, but also maybe even some of the educators that they're gonna come in contact with who are

you know, doing that, even though we're in this, this political shit storm where these people are being targeted. ⁓ and not even just these people anymore. It's anybody who ⁓ is approving or affirming of that, that are now starting to become on the chopping box at school meetings and those kinds of things. We're seeing deconstruction of library. ⁓

programs across the board. The DOJ is now starting to take federal funding away from those kinds of like federal programs that were kind of funneling into resources for people all over. And so how are you guys, you know, handling that, talking about that? And then in what ways are you seeing that in your communities?

Chelsea Myers (35:43)
Again, that's something that I wrote about in my last, it's not out yet. By the time this episode is out, maybe that piece will be out in Vermont Mom. But it was another thing that I talked about being a parent, being a non-binary parent in a school system and navigating the school system, navigating my friends or my kids' friends, my kids' friends' parents and what that's like. And the things that you don't realize if you're not living it is like school forms when you're out school forms.

Britt (36:11)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (36:12)
⁓ It's mother, father, mister, missus, ⁓ or things like it. Yes. There is non-binary parents day, and I'm not sure how recent that is, but I just became aware of it this year, and I can tell you that it absolutely...

Britt (36:18)
was interesting all the Mother's Day crafts that came home that was very interesting for me this year that

Chelsea Myers (36:36)
warmed my heart and Britt, I think it was you that shared on social media that it was non-binary parents day. And I was like, oh my, oh my God, like, okay, I don't have to like, but I do identify as a mother and that's a different, like a mother to me is not a gender term. Yes. Oh, right. What's the sex of your child? What's the, well, oh yeah, yes. Yes. Like what, yeah, my mom is, she is pretty. She is,

Britt (36:50)
even just like the wording of the prompts, right? Like our kids are like prompted to write all these things about their parents. Uh-huh. Well, and like, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (37:05)
⁓ and, but, you don't think about those things. You don't think about the crafts or the projects that they're doing. You don't think about the forms that you have to fill out when it comes to you as a parent or as your child, it's male or female. A little more often I'm finding some doctor's offices are providing another option. ⁓ but in terms of the school, no. And then like in parent teacher conference, I said, my favorite way to do parent teacher conferences through zoom.

because I can just put my pronouns in Zoom. And it's not a conversation. don't ever, I don't have to explain myself. I don't have to justify myself. It's just, that's me. We're moving on now. ⁓ And I'm super introverted and as social as I may seem, I'm really not. So I don't do a lot of the like birthday parties and stuff. Like my husband will go and do those things. ⁓ But I do, I don't...

I personally, I'd love to get people's opinions on this. I don't usually correct people or even explain myself unless I feel 100 % safe. that goes for family members as well. ⁓ My father and my stepmother, they do not use ⁓ they, them pronouns with me.

Britt (38:16)
Thank

Chelsea Myers (38:28)
And it's, I've talked to my husband and I've said, don't fight it. I don't want to fight it. It's not a fight I want to have. ⁓ so even with like my, my daughter's friends, parents, like if I know, and if I've known them for a very long time and I know that it's safe, then maybe it'll come up in a conversation. Otherwise I'll just let people misgender me, which feels horrible, but it doesn't feel safe. But they're, but the kids have no issue with it. The kids have no issue with it. So.

Yeah, I don't know. are have you guys as parents? know some of your kids are pretty young. Have you been in a similar situation with like kids or their parents? And how do you navigate that?

Tianna (39:12)
I can start, my daughter has sensory issues and at one point she took some scissors and she, you know, snipped her hair off. And so we had an issue where they were calling her a boy and they told her that there was no way that she could be a princess because she had no hair. And so ⁓ we just really leaned into self-love, right? ⁓ At that time, I used it as an opportunity to teach her that we could paint my son's nails and we do like.

you know, sometime because he that's how he feels cool. And I teach him that there's nothing wrong with that. And then for her, I was kind of teaching her that beauty or for you to feel confident yourself doesn't have a certain look to it doesn't have to be strong, a long straight hair. Your beauty can be you with no hair, if that what makes you feel beautiful. So now she's grown into this girl who doesn't like to comb her hair. She wears this like wild. And when people try to tell her about her hair, she's like, this is beautiful.

And you cannot tell her anything else because she is so set in herself, right? So that experience was so, it was such a blessing to us because it taught me to teach her, to teach my son that they are not limited to the hobbies within their gender roles. They can do whatever they like and it's very fluid and it's very fluid. We just don't have names to it. ⁓ But my son loves getting his gel nails in the summer with me. And my daughter loves playing football and you know, we,

Chelsea Myers (40:28)
Mm-hmm.

Tianna (40:36)
we are very fluid. And I think that's just important to just to for that experience. ⁓ Because it was hard. Everyone's calling her a boy and people were like, why don't you try to do some extensions? And I'm like, are we talking about a child here?

Chelsea Myers (40:52)
You

Tianna (40:54)
Like, she's okay with no hair, right? It's like, I don't want her to grow up believing that she has to fit into a mold for her to be like, for her to be considered beautiful or even confident in whatever adjective she wants to assign to herself. But I want her to know that there is no societal norm that you have to subscribe to, to feel your best. And that's just what we're moving through right now. Like, it doesn't have to be feminine.

⁓ But it doesn't, it's be whatever you decide it to be.

Britt (41:26)
This is something we're doing a lot with my oldest right now with social media messaging ⁓ because my oldest is almost 12 now and ⁓ has started to very much started to see what the societal expectation of what she should look like at 12 years old, is that's a whole other, we can do a whole other thing on that. That's, but like, you know, I think there's so much value in that.

teaching our children that there isn't a requirement to say that you are one thing or another and that ⁓ you can be beautifully, perfectly whole and complete just as you are and that you don't have to fit into this expectation of what people say you should be because you have a certain gender. ⁓ And that, you know,

that the right people who love you for you and the right people who care about you are going to find you beautiful because of all your parts of you inside out, front, back, up and down, and not because of what is labeled as beautiful in today's society. And I think that's so valuable that you're starting those conversations so young, Tianna. And I think that's something I didn't necessarily do until my oldest was older and I started to see it really impacted them, even though I am non-binary myself.

⁓ Because it was just so easy to fall into like, you when they're at school, there's girl colors and boy colors. And I always tell them that's not a thing. But I think it's so important to like really lean into that self love because at the end of the day, that's what's going to keep them going.

Lindsey Basler (43:05)
something I like to ask even whether it's two. So I do have my four year old and then I am a caretaker for my 13 year old that has Down syndrome. So sometimes the conversations with her are a little bit harder because she does understand. And like you said, Britt, it's crazy. Even though she is 13, she obviously has some developmental delays. She's like, I want to get on TikTok and I want to go to Ulta. And I'm like, what? What do you want to do?

And I'm like, okay, you're just, you know, a normal 13 year old, but sometimes, you know, she'll say, well, that's not pretty or that's not a girl thing. And I'm like, why? Like what makes it that? But even like, I will ask even just like, if one of my girls is dressed in something that you may think is more masculine, like, and if my mother-in-law or someone says, oh, you look like a boy today. I'll just say, oh, why? Why? What makes you think that?

And then honestly, then they're usually just like, I don't know. And then it's just kind of the end of the conversation. But just asking that small question when somebody makes a comment like that, even if they don't continue the conversation, kind of leaves them walking away like, why did they say that? Like, why did they say why?

Chelsea Myers (44:24)
causing you to think deeper and that's a little uncomfortable. Jess, you had posted something, this was a long time ago. ⁓ I know I've been following, I've been following you for a long time, Jess. Well, and if I get this wrong, I'm going to be so embarrassed, but I'm like 99 % sure it was you. You were talking about ⁓ pronouns and addressing that in a therapy session when parents are present.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (44:27)
Mm-hmm.

What did I post?

What did I first?

⁓ yeah. Back in the day when I used to do skits, is that it was, my gosh. that's like me on social media in 2021.

Chelsea Myers (44:56)
Yes. Yes! So okay, was you, yay!

I told you I've been following you for a while. But I loved it so much though. It was so validating. Can you talk about it so that I don't just fangirl? Even though I'm not a girl. See what I did? See what I did? I misgendered myself. And that's okay. I know, it's because we're conditioned. But anyway, so I'm not fan-personing.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (45:14)
So I think I remember.

Britt (45:19)
I do that all the time, it's so annoying.

bad human.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (45:27)
⁓

Was it the one that was like, I'm not gonna call them by a different name because their name was whatever, okay. So I ⁓ so I live in South Carolina and I work with a lot of LGBTQ plus youth. I will say most of the patients that do come through my door have affirming parents and that's why they're bringing them to me. But when I provide like psycho education, I'm usually not as like sassy as I am in my videos, I promise.

Chelsea Myers (45:33)
Yes. Yeah.

You

Jess Rabon (she/her) (45:57)
it's, you know, providing just like basic education on, you know, well, when did you first realize you were a girl or a boy? Well, I've always known, okay, so why do we think it's any different for trans or non-binary individuals? I always like to provide psycho education that gender identity develops around age two. Now that doesn't mean people necessarily know who they are going to be when they're adult, but like,

Lindsay and I both have four year olds. I don't know if you remember this Lindsay, but like at the two year well child check, they do ask, are you a boy or a girl? And it's not some conspiracy theory. It's literally a developmental milestone to know gender identity. And, you know, I, I will talk a lot about like, you may not understand it, but your role is to love and support your child. But something I bring up to a lot of times, you know, when it comes to names and stuff, like we call people their nicknames.

all the time and don't bat an eye. I love that we've talked about children a lot here and children get it. I think a lot of times we underestimate the intellect of children and how quickly they get things because as it was already brought up, as adults, we overcomplicate things. Like similar to you, Lindsay, you I'm not having a ton of deep conversations with my four-year-old, but like if she will make a comment like, is that a boy or a girl? You know.

There was one time I can think of now the name tag was a very traditionally masculine name and I was like, he's a boy but did look pretty androgynous. ⁓ And then there's other times she'll comment like, you know, well, boys can't wear dresses. I'm like, yeah, anybody can wear dresses. Cool. End of conversation. Like children get it. And I think a lot of times adults, because they're uncomfortable, overcomplicate things. ⁓ But, you know,

I also provide education on when people say they is plural. I say, okay, if you found an umbrella in an empty room, say someone left their umbrella here. You're talking about one person. It's not. And so I don't know, Chelsea, if that even answered your question, but I think there's like a lot of psycho education that we can provide that simple. Lindsay, I love that you say you're like, why would you not say, why would you say that? Or like, what made you?

Chelsea Myers (48:08)
No, it does, yeah.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (48:19)
say that because it does make people reflect and think. know, sometimes I might ask parents like, you know, your child just came out as trans. I can tell you're having a hard time. always try to validate the experience. Like what is the hardest part for you? And it makes them reflect. Sometimes it can be like, ⁓ I'm very religious and this goes against my religion. But a lot of times if you pull back layers, it's like, I'm scared of what this means for my child and it would just be easier for them. Okay, that's a very different conversation.

That doesn't mean you can invalidate their identity, but now we can explore your fears and ensure you get support as well. So I think, you know, with going back to the original question about like advocating and having conversations, I think as parents, we can just model. What do conversations look like? What does it look like to call someone by their correct name and pronouns? What does it look like to challenge those?

gender stereotypes that society tells us to have. Because I'm sure wherever you identify on the gender spectrum, at times there have been gender stereotypes placed on you that you did not necessarily like or agree with. Or times you stepped out of that box. know, Tianna, you brought up your son getting gel nails. I have worked with so many male children and teens over the years that just like to paint their nails.

Britt (49:29)
Okay.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (49:46)
And it means nothing other than they think it's cool to have colors on their nails. I don't know why it's a girl thing. Nail polish is cool.

Chelsea Myers (49:53)
There are no girl

things and boy things.

Tianna (49:57)
Yeah, and

I just wanted to say to what Jess was saying, I love how she let you take into account the grief that the parents are experiencing for the future that they wanted their kids to have. And I think that a lot of times when they are in conflict with their child's identity, they don't realize that they are in conflict with their own anticipatory grief. And so the way you just framed it, it gave me goosebumps because... ⁓

It's just like, you know, at the end of the day, those parents are just people too, that had these like expectations for their children that they won't get to live out. And it's really no deeper than that. Cause the love is, you know, it's just anticipatory grief of the future that they thought the kids would have. And so by you really addressing that, you can bridge that gap and really create that love, that relationship. And that just touched me like, made me a little bit emotional on a level I can't even describe because,

Yeah, I can't even explain, but that was really deep.

Britt (50:58)
So I think for me that the reason that people are afraid of children having this language, right, the reason that we're so afraid of broadening these horizons for kids is because it's not that hard to understand and it's not that hard to comprehend. And children have an innate connection with their emotions. They have an innate connection with relationship with other humans because they rely on it for survival. ⁓

And so when children start breaking outside of these molds for their parents, it's very scary because the world hasn't gotten to their kids yet. And they think that the kids are making this because they don't know what lays out there and how they will, how the world will respond to them. And so I think people are so afraid of children knowing this language or being able to understand that or having these.

other ideals put into their kids' heads, right, or indoctrinated when they're young, because it is that easy to understand. And it is that physiological understanding. And if we allow children to recognize that and start to understand that, it then points out all of the places in which the adult was suppressed and not allowed to experience those. you know,

after society literally beats it out of you that you can't be these things. This is what makes you who you are, who you were born into. These are the roles that you're supposed to fulfill. When kids don't have, when they have other language outside of that, it's scary for parents because then I think it starts to hold up a mirror to them to realize how kind of stuck sometimes they are in their own roles.

Chelsea Myers (52:46)
⁓ Y'all know me and I'm just always finding humor in everything. ⁓ But like when I agree 100 % with what Britt just said and then as Jess was mentioning before, like sometimes it's a religious thing and parents will claim that but then it goes deeper. I just want to throw out there that ⁓ we just got a new pope everybody and ⁓

I am not religious, but he's got a whole new name and everybody be calling him his new name. And that was not a difficult shift. ⁓ so you can say that you are Catholic or Christian or whatever religion, but I'm narrowing in on that because we have a new Pope. ⁓ and you, you're totally fine calling him by his chosen name. So I don't, I don't think it's that complicated.

to call your child by their chosen name or their chosen pronouns. ⁓ And I laugh, but it's not funny, but it is funny.

Tianna (53:38)
Thank

Lindsey Basler (53:46)
Yeah, so what is giving you guys hope? I know a lot of these things can feel really heavy, but do you have any wins that are worth celebrating and sharing? What is giving you guys hope through all of these things?

Chelsea Myers (54:00)
Can I go first? Cause I'm like bursting because this is huge for me. Okay. So I mentioned not very long ago that ⁓ my dad and my stepmom and whatever, that's not a conversation I'm willing to have with them. My parents are divorced. They have been since I was seven. So ⁓ my mom and her partner very much the opposite. And they, especially my mom's partner,

I call him my stepdad. They're not married. They never will be. That's whole other, that's their life. But my stepdad in particular comes from a generation that you would think would be not so quick to sort of adapt. Also comes from a profession that you think would not be so quick to adapt. He is retired military, like a lifer. He was in the military until very recently he retired.

⁓ he has only been in our lives for about 10 years, so he never knew me growing up. He never knew me as a child. but he, and now that my mom feels safe, my mom is in a relationship that she feels safe in. She is a much different mom than she was. She's a very different mom than she was when I was growing up. They have both been so supportive of this evolution.

⁓ And if they use the incorrect pronouns, they don't freak out or have a like, my God, I'm so sorry. Like this big reaction. It's like, they'll just, just like my daughter, like, they, they'll just quickly, sorry, they, or them. And they'll move on. And the reason I'm so excited to talk about this is because this Christmas, this past Christmas, my... ⁓

stepdad. So I don't wear jewelry. don't. My ring is even silicone. I don't even wear my my wedding ring. But my stepdad got me a bracelet. And he doesn't usually get me jewelry. He gets everybody else jewelry. But he got me a bracelet and it was very pretty. But I didn't really get it. But I was like, thank you. And then later, he while I was off having a sensory break because I'm neuro sparkly. ⁓

He came and sat down with me and he said, Hey, do you have Instagram open? And I said, yeah, actually I'm on Instagram. He goes, I want you to look up this designer. And because I am NeuroSparkly, I cannot remember the designer's name. ⁓ but I looked up the designer. It's actually a personal friend of my stepsisters, but he, he, or they, I, again, I apologize. I cannot remember, ⁓ how they identify. So I'm just going to say they, ⁓

Lindsey Basler (56:20)
you

Chelsea Myers (56:42)
They have a mass of millions of followers. ⁓ And he said this bracelet, he made this bracelet. This is a bracelet that he designed. And the design is about embracing being non-binary or being outside the gender norm. And ⁓ that was his creation. if you look at all of his designs, like,

I, he would just, wanted me to look into this, to this person and he was explaining to me why he chose this bracelet for me, even though he knows that I don't really wear jewelry. ⁓ and I felt more validated in that moment than I think I ever, like I felt seen from a person who, who does not need to, to, I don't know.

He doesn't need to understand me. He's an adult. I'm an adult. And it probably is challenging to his upbringing. He was one of many boys with a single mom and like I said, military boy and all that jazz, but he is putting in the effort and he does put in the effort and he is showing me every day what a father can be. And yeah, so like if you're...

listening and not watching. This is my biggest smile with having half my face paralyzed. This is about as big as I can smile. But that is giving me hope. My daughter, obviously, that's one thing. And we've talked about that. And that's great. And I think that the younger generation, because they can understand these things, they are understanding these things. But from a man who comes from a generation that this was not the norm, and this goes against pretty much everything that he kind of grew up with.

Britt (58:28)
Thank

Chelsea Myers (58:29)
to go out

of his way to learn and to accept and to embrace. I don't, it just, that's giving me hope. So sorry, that was long winded, but ⁓ I love it.

Britt (58:43)
No, it goes into that saying, like,

Jess Rabon (she/her) (58:44)
Who

Britt (58:44)
if

Jess Rabon (she/her) (58:44)
else is crying?

Britt (58:44)
they can, they will. You know, if they wanted to, they would. And I think that's where it's like, I find so much hope too. And, you know, even like in all of these like dark places and I live in a very not super safe space for being a trans individual. I think those little pockets of people who like do value you and see as a human being, whether that's in like, even like this group, like I love our little like

text group as being like a safe space. I have a couple like really close personal friends who are like very affirming and are like, you know, I think that's my hope is those little tiny places of people who love you just genuinely love you and they show up and it may be difficult, but because they love you and care about you and they want to. ⁓ And I think finding that even in strangers, you know, like as we're seeing more and more like

protests coming up and like I've noticed an uptick of like progressive parenting groups that have been popping up in my area. Things like that were like even though I think there's so much darkness going on right now and there is so much that's working so hard against the LGBTQ or two-spirit LGBTQ families the hope truly comes from the community I think and the

The requirement to band together in all of that is what keeps me going, honestly.

Lindsey Basler (1:00:14)
something that I witnessed recently and ⁓ some like it hot, know, it's not a new movie, it's not a new musical, but it recently came to, the musical recently came to St. Louis and I am really into theater, really into the arts and I truly believe that, you know, a lot of what we experience and, you know, art is political and seeing

Chelsea Myers (1:00:24)
No!

Lindsey Basler (1:00:41)
some like it hot in the theater today where one of the main characters goes undercover dressing. He goes undercover dressing as a woman and has that identity shift and realizing that, you know, he hasn't felt who he was in his body this whole time. And he comes out as transgender at the end of the musical and just watching that with like, I guess, close to 3000, 4000 people spanning tons of generations, mostly.

I would say mostly people over the age of 40, ⁓ usually because I'm the only person there in the middle of the day on a Thursday with them and retired people, but just watching all of them clapping and enjoying that and whether they were just enjoying something that was maybe a classic film to them, but hoping that it was also them realizing that this is what a lot of people, it may have seemed just like, it's just a movie.

whatever, even though, know, it was still going on when it came out. But just seeing these people also really enjoying this and clapping and hoping that they were thinking further than just what was on the stage and that they either maybe had a little mind shift or are championing this outside of the stage as well.

Tianna (1:02:02)
just want to say what gives me hope is I have two ⁓ neuro-sparkly kids, as Chelsea says, and just seeing them live their life unapologetically and authentically gives me hope every single day because they ⁓ have been taught, like they're brought up in such a ball of love. There's nothing that they can do that would make me look at them any differently and just...

see them live in their truth and whatever that is, right? My son with his nails, my daughter with her hair, whatever that is, it gives me so much hope because they have this confidence that I know will spread like wildfire. And I'm so excited for like their impact on the world ⁓ because I feel like not everyone is raised with like that amount of love, like that, you know? And I prayed so hard for those two. I had a six month miscarriage.

before I had my son Anthony. So motherhood has been, I can't describe it to you. And that's what gives me hope is that I'm raising two people who are going to love and adore. They're going to be your kids' best of friends. They're going to love and adore people regardless of what they look like, where they come from. And I'm creating the change that I want to see in the world. And that's what gives me hope.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:16)
I

Jess Rabon (she/her) (1:03:18)
I say this all the time. think the thing that gives me hope with regard to everything we've been talking about, but just in general for the future is Gen Z and Gen Alpha. specifically when we're talking about gender, like I see it in my clients day in and day out. Like they are much more informed on politics, the sociopolitical climate, all of those things than I ever was at their age. I mean, I do see some young adults. So I think I have like,

Chelsea Myers (1:03:27)
Yeah.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (1:03:48)
three clients that were able to vote in this past election. But regardless of age, they're educating themselves, like getting involved. They're like, ⁓ I'll be old enough to vote in the 2026 elections, like the local elections. I didn't even think about local elections when I was 18. And just the fact that, you know, they want to learn and want to be informed and are already getting involved even when

their voice can't make a difference in the sense of actually casting a vote. They recognize that their voice still makes a difference. And like for me, that is so inspiring and like, you know, motivates me to get even more heavily involved than I already am because I'm like, if I hadn't seen my 15 year old clients talking about this, attending rallies, like as their psychologist, I need to make sure I'm writing my legislators doing all of these things too so that

what I say in the therapy room I'm also living out outside of it. yeah, Gen Z, Gen Alpha gives me hope.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:55)
We just can't understand you. If you could translate for us with your language. I don't know what... I'm talking about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Not you, Jess. Yeah.

Britt (1:05:04)
Yeah, we gave them a couple of new words and then they just made up a whole other language.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (1:05:06)
Oh, okay.

Oh, I was like, Gen Z is like younger than, well, I don't know.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:10)
No, I know, I

know, no, like I'm talking like Skibbity and ⁓ Riz. I know what those two are, but then the other ones. So if you could just, it is, and Skibbity is bad. Skibbity is not good. Skibbity toilet is bad. ⁓ Don't laugh at us, you guys. Skibbity toilet Ohio is like really, really, really bad, but that's all I know. all right. We're.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (1:05:15)
yeah.

Riz is charisma. I do know that.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:38)
we're rounding up here because it is getting close to that time where we have to be real parents again and not odd moms anymore. ⁓ But I just wanted to acknowledge that this has been a pretty powerful episode. And

this has been like a heavier topic and this has been something that can be touchy and hard to talk about with your families. But all of us here today come from different states, come from different coasts, come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, and we have different age kiddos. And we all had a totally normal... No, it was odd because we're odd, but...

We had a totally okay conversation where everyone felt safe, everyone felt heard, and everyone felt validated. ⁓ So it's okay to have these conversations. It's okay to have these conversations with your kids. It's okay to have these conversations with your friends. I want to make sure to let you know about some resources that you can check out if you do want some help talking to your kids or learning more. ⁓ The Trevor Project is an

awesome resource to check out. You can find them at thetrevorproject.org. ⁓ ACLU ⁓ anti-LGBTQ legislation tracker. That's a mouthful. ⁓ That's a .org. So you can go to the ACLU.org and just put in legislative attacks on LGBTQ rights and you can watch the bills that are going in. ⁓ The human rights camp. Yeah.

Britt (1:07:16)
also wanted to shout out an awesome

podcast for anybody whose kiddos are coming out into the LGBTQ or trans community. It's called Just Breathe Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen. And I did an episode spot with the ⁓ main person who hosts it and it's an incredible resource. if you are kind of parenting kids that are

on that spectrum or in any part of the LGBTQ community. It's a phenomenal place to check out in a good community.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:49)
And if you have younger kiddos and you just want to explore this topic, ⁓ there are lots of children's books, but one that I can highly recommend and that helped us a lot with pronouns is called What Are Your Words? Because it's not just about pronouns. It's also about learning about you as a person. ⁓ It's about asking a little kid, are your words today? And it can change every day. And my nine-year-old loves it. She'll be like...

Today I'm she, her, and I'm hyper and I'm weird. And I'm like, yeah, I love that. Weird is a good word at our house. So what are your words is an amazing book. But we got to get to our hot take. And I actually, I love our hot take today. I think we've answered it, but so we'll go around and we'll, we'll give our opinions, but our hot take kids are too young to learn about LGBTQIA plus people.

I'll give you my hot take and that's fuck no. They are not too young. Children are not too young. We have said it so many times. Children are in touch with their emotions. They have big feelings because they are allowed to have big feelings and they can understand these things and it is not difficult. It is not difficult for them. There's my hot take. I want to hear from the rest of you.

Britt (1:09:13)
I take it if your baby's young enough to wear a gendered color or gendered onesie, you're it's old enough to start breaking those societal expectations. So no such thing as too young in my book over here.

Lindsey Basler (1:09:14)
I think.

I agree with the both of you and I think sometimes we forget that children are people and they see things, they understand a lot more than we realize. So we should answer them with honesty and open conversations. So not too young.

Jess Rabon (she/her) (1:09:49)
agree with everything said because like Lindsay, you were just saying, I always think about the fact that if we're not talking about things to our kids, they're going to learn about it from being out in the environment unless you literally keep them in a bubble, which your choice. But like when I hear people saying like kids shouldn't learn about, you know, LGBTQ couples in school, it's like, OK, what if your kid's friend has two moms or two dads?

Is that kid not allowed to talk about their parents? And like we've said multiple times, it's such an easy conversation. Like my daughter has met kids that have same-sex parents or some of my friends that have same-sex partners. And there's only been one time and she was like, maybe, that she kind of looked like when I introduced like the two dads and she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, so-and-so has two dads. And she was like, cool.

Can I eat my ice cream now? Literally, we were getting ice cream. Like, it's not a hard conversation. I think a takeaway that we've brought up a lot of times, like we as adults overcomplicate conversations. So no, kids are not too young. I always say like everything is developmentally appropriate. Just like you probably wouldn't talk to your six-year-old about intimate details of reproduction. You're not gonna, from a cishet couple, you're not gonna do the same thing. But a six-year-old knowing that...

Some kids have two moms or two dads or is no different than they live with their grandparents or a single parent or aunt or uncle. They're all just different families. Yeah, that was a long winded hot take.

Chelsea Myers (1:11:28)
our hot take.

No, it wasn't. It was beautiful. We've got to go back to real life, everybody. And we still don't have a sign off. I don't think we need one. Our first one was cool. We talked about pop tarts and then I don't know, we're just weird and we're odd and I love it. And I love this space.

Chelsea Myers (1:11:46)
so yeah, this is Odd Moms signing off.

Lindsey Basler (1:11:50)
we just keep getting hotter.